Bible Studies

[Les]

The book '1001 Great Albums to Hear Before You Die' specifically mentions that David McComb was raised by parents with a stong belief in Christanity when discussing 'Bury Deep In Love' off "Calenture'

[Kieren]

Speaking of which ... I came across this recently.  Not sure if its been mentioned before - http://abmcg.blogspot.com/

[Les]

Now , that is a very interesting article. Did they both go to the same school?

Fantastic find.

[Kieren]

And does anyone know anything about the "... book of essays about McComb and the Triffids, focussing on religion..."?   It would be interesting to find out more. 

[mark t]

as you'd expect Urpal was on to this a while back

http://thetriffids.com/forum/index.php?topic=1829.0

[Kieren]

Thanks Mark - I've clearly not been paying attention!

Urpal - did you get in contact with Andrew to find out about the book of essays??  Any news??

[TowerOfSong]

Maybe this is the book that Niall Lucy is involved with? It's been mentioned elsewhere here recently....

[PeterG]

hi there

haven't read all replies to this posting - and i don't know whether GL has replied yet either - but i can answer...it is my understanding that David excelled at both English and theological studies at school (a fact that popped up in obits soon after he died as i recall).

I only ever interviewed him once - it was Feb 1986 just after the Triffids supported Dylan at Sydney's Entertainment Centre and we discussed Jesus Calling...he said to me and in interviews elsewhere that the song was inpsired partly by his interest in the US writer Flannery O'Connor - she wrote short stories and two novels Wise Blood and the Violent Bear It Away. O'Connor's work featured grotesque characters and she often climaxed her stories with violence of a macarbe nature.

Her stories frequently concerned characters who were looking for 'grace'.

I cannot say whether Dave was 'religous' or even spiritual as i did not know him...but clearly he found religous imagery and the ideas that flow from that imagery very powerful and moving.

What's often not discussed in these forums is just how funny - in a wicked and ironic way - Dave often was and this was the context for a lot of the Biblical references - so it is my conclusion that the line "I'm going to make you fishers of men" is less a clear 'religous' reference than a very literary joke about Field of Glass' bombastic, ego-maniac narrator...I mean in the line he is putting himself up as the Saviour!!

Anothr humourous use of 'religousity' in Dave's lyrics is Convent Walls - the first line of which refers to God and which tells the story of a man whose love has left him to join a convent...David introduced the song this way at a show I saw and it prompted much laughter and David's reply to the laughter..."No, no, no it's not funny...it's just [long pause] sad..." [an announcement that  was followed by more laughter.]

Convent Walls first line: "O Darling you are leaving for a better man than can hope to ever be..."

cheers
pg

[mark t]

Hi Peter and welcome (back?)!

I've always loved the line 'blood on my thighs and milk on my knees' .....it sounds like it should be referring to something biblical - but I don't know if it is.
'sign out the front says vacancies' - (there's the humour).

Maybe this is the book that Niall Lucy is involved with? It's been mentioned elsewhere here recently....

I think that's right Tower - ta, I was trying to remember his name....

[TowerOfSong]

found this quote the other day from an interview, in which DM is asked about the religious content of his songs;

Calenture' might not be as conceptual as it sounds, but David McComb doesn't deny the influence that religion has had on his songs: from the grandiose gospel of 'Bury Me Deep In Love' through the overt imagery of 'Holy Water' to rank hypocrisy and 'Save What You Can'.

"I had to go to church up until I was 16: singing hymns twice a day, having to say prayers, and so it's something I can never erase. Religion is just part my vocabulary and when I think about it, it's actually quite a scary thought cos there's a fair chance that a hell of a lot of our melodies are based on church hymns.

"Although I like R&B, we rarely have that as an influence on our music, and I guess that's mainly because you see it being done badly so often that it really turns you off. But, I guess the hymns probably do have quite a lot to answer for."

McComb's interest in religion, however, is not in the subject per se but more in it as the opium of the people.

"It annoys me when people think you're weird cos you're interested in religion. Basically, I'm concerned with the hole that religion has left behind. Once people stop believing in God they go for a number of substitutes which they use to fill the space where that had been: sports cars, going to The Limelight, becoming
a romantic twit. What happened to me? Oh, definitely the latter."

DM also pointed out that nearly all his girlfriends had been Catholics, and at one point late in his life he even took some instruction in Catholic doctrine, but he had trouble accepting these ( to put it more diplomatically than he did) and so gave it up.

Strangely enough, I once heard an australian radio documentary in which a Roi Huberman talked about how his wife Megan became interested in Judaism after meeting him, and duly converted (from catholicism IIRC), somewhat to his initial consternation. This of course is the same Megan who was a girlfriend of David's back in the 80s.

[Urpal]

McComb's interest in religion, however, is not in the subject per se but more in it as the opium of the people.

"It annoys me when people think you're weird cos you're interested in religion. Basically, I'm concerned with the hole that religion has left behind. Once people stop believing in God they go for a number of substitutes which they use to fill the space where that had been: sports cars, going to The Limelight, becoming
a romantic twit. What happened to me? Oh, definitely the latter."[/i]

This book I'm reading at the moment deals with the same concern thus:

"much to the consternation of social scientists, on average, regular churchgoers suffer less depression or unhappiness than unbelievers...regardless of religion,.nationality, gender, age or ethnic background...Almost by definition, religious people are less likely to be materialistic. One study...showed this very clearly. Those with materialistic values, such as wanting money or prestige, were far less likely to be religious, and they were unhappier, drank and smoked more, and, in the case of women, were at greater risk of eating disorders. Compared with non-believers, the only sort of religious people who are not protected against depression are ones whose involvement in faith is guided by self-seeking goals..., seeing belief as an investment, such as hoping that prayer would be instrumental in making them successful in work or love..."

It sounds like a strong argument for getting involved in religion even if you don't believe

I find it interesting that the writer refers to "churchgoers" in his opening line not "religious believers" or some less participative term. Assuming the studies are correct, I wonder whether it's the social support network, feeling of community and shared purpose that promotes greater "immunity" from depressive problems rather than the "pure faith" aspects? I'm thinking of Jim Jones' People's Temple in this context. His "religious doctrine" was one that aspoused "socialist revolution" whilst adopting an evangelical religious open-to-all-comers happy-clappy ceremony with him as charismatic leader of the tribe banging bibles, banging supplicants and ultimately banging the "revolutionary suicide" drum off the edge of a cliff. By all accounts, many of his believers were mostly happy and carefree up to the point of no return and believed they'd reached the promised land here on earth long before they actually metaphorically did by "taking an early bath".

[mark t]

"much to the consternation of social scientists, on average, regular churchgoers suffer less depression or unhappiness than unbelievers...regardless of religion,.nationality, gender, age or ethnic background...Almost by definition, religious people are less likely to be materialistic. ..."

It sounds like a strong argument for getting involved in religion even if you don't believe

I can imaging that in the established christian churches - and have seen it in previous generations of my extended family (not that that has any statistical validity). But this is changing. The largest and most obvious example, in Oz, is the evangelical mob, Hillsong. They actively promote a blend of materialism and jesus as the way to happiness. Their leader has written books on the subject.

[Gazza]

This book I'm reading at the moment deals with the same concern thus: "much to the consternation of social scientists, on average, regular churchgoers suffer less depression or unhappiness than unbelievers..."

Just hope that the same book also quotes the research which found that church-going Christians are significantly more likely to electrocute their fellow humans just because someone in a white coat asks them to.

Don't have the reference to hand, but the basis of the experiment was that a number of people were invited to take part in a laboratory experiment into pain tolerance, not realising that they were in fact the subject of a different experiment altogether. The idea was that they would administer electric shocks to a subject they couldn't see, so that researchers in the other area would be able to see how they responded. The shocks were steadily increased, while a boffin in a lab coat reassured them that the shockees were perfectly safe and wouldn't be harmed.

In reality, the other room was staffed by student actors, who, as the shocks increased, would scream in pain, beg for the experiment to stop, and so on.

So long as the blokes in white coats kept reassuring them, the Christians (American Christians, admittedly, who often seem like a breed apart) would continue – some of them even beyond the point where the shockees had proclaimed their imminent death. The non-Christians, in general, refused to continue and walked out much earlier. Unfortunately I can't remember if they broke the experiment down further, into denominations, other religions and so on within the two groups.

[Gazza]

The other big question here is whether or not regular churchgoers are genuinely happier, or simply report themselves to be happier. I suspect that it's probably the latter: religion and pretence go hand in hand.

[mark t]

taking this thread even further away - I suddenly need to quote Burroughs-

If you're doing business with a religious son-of-a-bitch,
Get it in writing.
His word isn't worth shit.
Not with the good lord telling him how to fuck you on the deal.