Literary influences?

[Cassiel]

Lads, you don't have to apologise for living in Birmingham. It must have been very hard for you. 

[Urpal]

It was, it was....but somebody has to do it.

[TowerOfSong]

One book David was very impressed with was 19th century Australian memoir by an eccentric, called "the Confessions of William James Chidley"(UQP), which is very hard to describe, but fascinating, more so  if you know some of the australian places mentioned. It is long out of print, but I have found it both in a library, and secondhand on the web.
It would make an amazing film if someone had the energy to write a screenplay.

[glee]

We should also not ignore the venerable mainstays of the tour bus - the biography. We used to pass them around - Dino, Hank Williams, Marlon Brando etc etc ...my point being Dave also had a taste for the more trashy side of things. I remember having to be dragged away from our room somewhere or other to play a gig as we were half way through the John and Yoko telemovie. 

[Adam]

"the Confessions of William James Chidley"

Thanks ToS, found it cheapish on Amazon and it's in the e-bag

[kuba]

I was looking for a thread about Triffids-inspired literature and ended up here, I know it's actually the other way round, but, oh well.

Google led me to an interview with a Polish poet I swear I have never heard of before (not that I'm particularly interested in modern Polish poetry), Grzegorz Wroblewski. The guy is in his mid 40s and has lived in Copenhagen for over 20 years now. From what I have read, music is one of his major inspirations, and in the most interesting part of the interview he goes like this:

"For me The Triffids and The Go-Betweens are inimitable constellations. It would demand a more comprehensive drawing for me to explain why this delicate Australian sound - acoustic but rough at the same time, melancholy and definitely unsettling ("Born Sandy Devotional") meant that much to me in my life and consequently for my poetry. Try searching for a song called "Red Pony" someday, close or open your eyes and float with them for a while."

A little curiosity, but I quite liked what he said, so decided to translate it. I'm also interested whether any of you have encountered any form of art inspired by the Triffids or maybe it *had been* discussed around here before, sorry if it had.

[Adam]

Thanks for posting that Kuba.  I was particularly interested in this bit

"For me The Triffids and The Go-Betweens are inimitable constellations. It would demand a more comprehensive drawing for me to explain why this delicate Australian sound - acoustic but rough at the same time, melancholy and definitely unsettling..."

in light of James having said this the other day:

One of the reasons I think Dave and I bonded fairly quickly at the start is that I was forthright in dismissing as ludicrous any claims that the Triffids sounded like the Go-Betweens or were in any respect indebted to them. I remember that when I first met Dave, comparisons with the Go-Betweens were being made all the time and had become something of a cross he was being forced to bear. ......

One of the things Dave couldn't say, but which I can, is that the Triffids were not the least bit inspired by the Go-Betweens and didn't need any pats on the back from them. I don't know much about the band's subsequent relations with the Go-Betweens - this is before the Triffids went to England - but I gather they were very friendly. I'd have to say that Dave was wryly amused, more than anything else, by the Go-Betweens comparisons, but nonetheless thought that they were simply ignorant. I recall on more than one occasion when Dave and I were together and he was speaking to someone who'd make the obligatory reference to the Go-Betweens, he would either scowl or shoot me a weary look. I think the fact that I was able to discern, as it seemed few other people could, the lack of affinity between the Triffids' and the Go-Betweens' music endeared me to him from the start.

When I first read that I thought it was rather hard and rather lacking in empathy for the sort of people who come here.  I think it's fair to say that most of us here like both bands very much and, though I don't suppose many of us actually think they sound particularly similar, it can't really be denied that the two bands did share a sensibility of sorts, or at least, they evoked a similar response in people - as the chap up there says, "acoustic but rough at the same time, melancholy and definitely unsettling...".  Fair enough, right?  Is he wrong for applying that description to both bands?  I'm guessing the majority of people here would recognise it right away.  Sure they don't sound alike but declaring the "lack of affinity between the Triffids' and the Go-Betweens' music" feels to me like an attempt to dictate what can't be dictated - that being how people hear stuff and think about it and make associations for themselves that reflect the unfolding of their own lives and their understanding of the world.   How about it?  Did the two of you dismiss the possibility of that more emotional connection as well as the more dismissable musical one?  Or did it even come up?

[Cassiel]

Yup, I found that interesting too. But from what I know of The Go-Betweens, and Grant in particular, I think it worked both ways. I remember Graham mentioning in a thread somewhere that there is absolutely no way that Grant would ever have admitted to having been inspired or influenced by The Triffids. Understandably, because, while they are both bands I love totally and wholly, musically their differences are more striking than any similarities. Not least because The Go-Betweens were all about two singers and songwriters and the way they rubbed against each other.

However Adam's right when he says there must be something umbilical that connects them, given so many of us here and elsewhere like them both, something that goes far beyond Oz-ness. Both bands share a sense of dynamic, of what makes a song great; both forged quite strong, if different characters; both built a body of excellent, critically lauded work that was commercially ignored. More pertinent is the 'literariness' of both bands - all three, Grant, Robert and David, were well-read, well-educated and consumate lyricists. I don't want to get into a 'who's best?' here, simply to say that I think Grant and Dave share a similar genius for writing a love song (Robert is far more dry and wry) and are up there among the best. Robert and Dave also seem to have shared strong visions for their respective bands - Robert has always had quite definite ideas of what The Go-Betweens records should sound like, the artwork, the place of recording, debating titles etc, all the attention to detail we know David possessed.

My theory is that David and Grant's antipathy towards each others music, or apathy at least, may have stemmed from two very strong-minded, independent men seeking to plough their own furrow without being chained to some sort of scene or lazily compared to a rival/compatriot. They might be willing break bread or share a beer at a barbecue, but in no way would one allow anyone to think they were influenced by the other. And quite right - they weren't.

[Gazza]

Still absolutely mystified about this supposed connection between The Triffids and The Go-Betweens and, to be honest, that so many people here do genuinely seem to be seriously enthusiastic about both. I can more easily find some of the things that I love about The Triffids in the music of John Coltrane, say, than I can in that of The Go-Betweens. They always seem so pale, so lacking in musical substance and interest.

That said, I am, rather belatedly, coming to appreciate that they wrote some good songs. Strangely enough, I sent a copy of BSD to a GoBs-loving friend a little while back, and her initial reaction was that it reminded her of them. A few weeks later she confessed that she just didn't like it, though she did think some of the songs were okay.

[Urpal]

I don't see a connection between The Triffids and the GoBs, except they are both Australian and of the same post-punk VU influenced generation and "literary".

I don't care all that much for the GoBs. But for having their name rammed down my throat by other members of this forum I'd care less. They weren't on my radar in the 80s when I got into the Bad Seeds and The Triffids. I believe I worked the good seam.

I can understand Dave's offence. I'd be offended too if my music was regarded as GoBs copyism. My sights would have been set much higher.

[Adam]

I can more easily find some of the things that I love about The Triffids in the music of John Coltrane, say, than I can in that of The Go-Betweens.

Well good for you.  A lot of people don't or woudn't.  Which of you is wrong?  Do you see what I'm saying?

I can understand Dave's offence. I'd be offended too if my music was regarded as GoBs copyism.

Well, duh, so would I.  I think we can all agree on that but that isn't what I meant at all. 

[Eke]

that isn't what I meant at all.

Yes, the reason a proportion of the people on here share a love for both bands is the emotional link you cite above isn't it? And who's to say we're wrong? Certainly not Dave (he said antagonistically). He may have fronted the band that made the music but when you've sent it out there to resonate with who it will you can't predict the way in which the recipient picks up on it.

And as Gazza seems to be implying, any piece of art isn't wholly defined by the creator. There may be meaning in any piece that wasn't consciously put there that can be interpreted by an observer and be completely as valid as anything that the creator intended.

That emotional link so aptly described by Kuba's poet is what a lot of the papers in the UK at the time were picking up on. I certainly don't remember the Go-Betweens being any more of a cult favourite than the Triffids so there wouldn't have been any accusations of copying. Comparisons maybe, and partially made on the rather silly but convenient basis of geography to be sure, but not plagiarism.

[Adam]

sorry to have buggered up the sequence but

[Yes, the reason a proportion of the people on here share a love for both bands is the emotional link you cite above isn't it? And who's to say we're wrong? Certainly not Dave (he said antagonistically). He may have fronted the band that made the music but when you've sent it out there to resonate with who it will you can't predict the way in which the recipient picks up on it.

Exactly.

[son of albert]

sorry to have buggered up the sequence but

[Yes, the reason a proportion of the people on here share a love for both bands is the emotional link you cite above isn't it? And who's to say we're wrong? Certainly not Dave (he said antagonistically). He may have fronted the band that made the music but when you've sent it out there to resonate with who it will you can't predict the way in which the recipient picks up on it.

Exactly.

If I were a wanky leadership guru I would talk about the difference between Intended Impact one may have (usually clear in art) and the Actual Impact on the other party (much harder to understand, out of your hands and the subject of endless critical opinion).  There is probably some consistency of actual impact for both bands on the inner core of 30something (mostly) white (mostly) males. Yes I mean us.

Or it may just be the alchemy of music, transporting us to our inner core (or something).

I have never managed to get into the GoBs. I like the idea of them but have so much catching up to do elsewhere.....I do prefer their later, post reformation stuff.

[Johan]

It seems the Go-Betweens are much more loved among Triffids-fans than the other way round, which seems strange...
The Go-Betweens also received more critical acclaim early in their career than the Triffids did and this obviously irked Dave as he felt The Triffids were much better. But then The Triffids improved over time and reached their full potential only in 1986/1987, by which time the Go-Betweens comparisons were dead and gone I believe.
I think the Go-Betweens were a consistently good band throughout their career but never reached the heights of BSD or Calenture, but then very few did or ever will.