Author Topic: Oh Mercy  (Read 6805 times)

Offline glee

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Oh Mercy
« on: November 20, 2010, 05:24:16 PM »

Offline son of albert

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Re: Oh Mercy
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2010, 08:18:10 PM »
Thanks for posting that Glee. I really enjoyed that - mouthwatering!

When will the Costar demos see the official light of day? I'm listening to their version of The Good Life Never Ends right now and it has an understated and wasted charm. The friendly, sotten advice of the bar-room confidant. And their version of Devil Please is outstanding.
It's an idea some day, in my tears, my dreams...

Offline son of albert

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Re: Oh Mercy
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2010, 08:45:30 PM »
See I might as well talk to myself ........
It's an idea some day, in my tears, my dreams...

Offline glee

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Re: Oh Mercy
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2010, 01:46:12 PM »
Rights to costar (and LOW for that matter) don't lie with The Triffids and I don't have any news on either I'm afraid.
I like the clip of The Good Life Never Ends a lot. Where are you listening to Devil Please.

Offline Urpal

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Re: Oh Mercy
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2010, 07:56:15 PM »
I enjoyed that video a lot too. Suitably atmospheric and down at heel, playing on the irony of the song. The performance of the song isn't overwhelming but is true and, in the particular context, underwhelming is good.

The video is very filmic (if such a word exists). Compliments to the director and others responsible for the content.
We all have our croissants to bear

Offline TowerOfSong

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Re: Oh Mercy
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2010, 11:44:29 AM »
This is absolutely gorgeous. Thanks so much for sharing! :)
Wadya gonna do?
T. Soprano

Offline Max Dembo

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Re: Oh Mercy
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2010, 03:24:54 AM »
Actuallv, Son of Albert, at the time of Dave's passing the
costar EP was being put out by He and I. Noone else was
involved and I don't recall anybody threatening us with a law suit. We recorded backing vocals for 'I kepy my eye om you'
which the producer promptly lost. Though at least neither of us
suffered gun shot wounds.
It's difficult to see how anyone could make enough cash to
make it worthwhile. I'm more than happy to burn ALL that there is. , though I wish Skydog records was still around.
I'll contact you and work it out. These are Dave's songs
and I doubt whether Allen Klein's going to screw me.
Anyone else that figures THEY deserve money from putting
it out can write in and explain why. Pushing the pause button
isn't my concept of producing.
The word you're looking for is 'cinematic', Urpal. Or perhaps
'Carnivorous' . There's a lot of meat in that clip.

Offline son of albert

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Re: Oh Mercy
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2010, 09:47:16 AM »
Hey Max - you could always post the songs on this site. That would cut out a whole load of middle men and make the stuff available at no cost to anyone.
It's an idea some day, in my tears, my dreams...

Offline Kieren

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Re: Oh Mercy
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2010, 08:27:27 AM »
Strongly seconded!

Offline Max Dembo

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Re: Oh Mercy
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2010, 08:44:31 AM »
This is Graham's web site, is it not? IF by some magical
process I could put costar songs on this site, it would be
HIS neck not mine. He has a wife and children to support.
Equally if I had a website I wouldn't decorate it with photos
by Bleddyn Butcher without credit and when asked to take
them down, it wouldn't take 5 years for me to respond.
(You forgot that detail, Pherron, in your self piteous rave).
Nor is there anything noble about barter. You could take
drugs or sexual favours and still not soil your hands with
currency.
I might release a bootleg version of 'Beautiful Waste'
without the names of the editors on the front. The only
book of poetry I have with the editor's name on the cover
is a collection edited by W.H. Auden
And before you jump to the assumption I'm sticking up for
B.B because we're so buddy-buddy, you should hear us fight!
Your obstinate servant
Max

Offline Eke

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Re: Oh Mercy
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2010, 06:49:55 PM »
Oh dear, the internet.... For me, a lot of the joy of Bleddyn's pictures was seeing them in their original setting in the music press articles they accompanied. They're never going to be reprinted in that form so Pherron's website was a great place for Triffids fans to see them and I think it's a shame that Bleddyn has opted to have them removed. (One thing to bear in mind is that pherron's website isn't a commercial concern - I think the reference to bootlegging is a little unfair). I doubt that leaving the photos there would have affected sales of his book but of course Bleddyn was completely within his rights. And so would any of the writers involved have been (or indeed IPC for the most part I would guess). Hey ho.

Here's an ethical question - not in any way intended to be morally comparable to the previous paragraph. Feel free to substitute the words "Pet Shop Boys" with the name of a band you like in your head if it helps. The official Pet Shop Boys website had an audio page for some years where they posted rare mixes, demos and otherwise unreleased material for site visitors to listen to. The intent was that visitors would only be able to stream the songs online but the actual mechanism behind it meant that the songs were uploaded to a folder in the listeners' computer and played from there. The PSB singer has recently said that the audio page was removed from the website when the band realised that this was how it worked. I now have three hours worth of rare and unreleased PSB material on my computer and I have been complicit in this only to the extent that I clicked on a "play" button on a website. Should I delete that material because I know that I wasn't intended to have it and the owners of that material didn't wish me to. And if not, to what extent am I morally entitled to distribute that material to other people who didn't listen to it at the time? After all I didn't download it, it was put on my computer without my asking for it.

Offline Max Dembo

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Re: Oh Mercy
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2010, 01:46:15 AM »
The rather glaring difference is that was THEIR work to begin
with. Some of Bleddyn's photos are among my favourites
but noone feels any responsability to pay him royalties.
That's HIS work, that's how he supports his family.
Does Pherron burn things for the love of spreading music
or does he expect something in return?
There wasn't supposed to be anything negative about the
word Bootleg. I've got lots. Some of Kafka's books are
arguably 'bootlegs' because Max Brod was told to destroy them. obviously Pherron isn't in this league, but he whined
that because he couldn't tell which were Bleddyn's and which weren't ( Now THERE"S a compliment!) so he wiped them all. A bit like saying :
I wasn't certain if the songs were The Triffids or Lloyd Cole.
Are YOU offering The Pet Shop Boys rairities in exchange for
something you want? We know each other in only the most
superficial of ways but I just can't see you doing it.
Try selling or swapping bootlegged movies and see how
far your "I was doing it for Art" argument pans out.
Plus, it might have slipped your attention but between Bleddyn
asking and Pherron obliging was a delay of FIVE years.
Maybe if Pherron was capable of any creative expression of his own he'd understand.
P.S. I love the Pet Shop Boys and I'll leave their feelings about
this to them. they are their songs. But if I was you I'd have
no qualms about burning copies for others. A blank CD costs
about 40 cents so I'm often burning copies of things for
friends who aren't flush. I love doing it and to charge money
or some other form of payment would spoil the pleasure.
There's nothing in Pherron's M.O which pisses me off except
his misconception there's something heroic about it.
Though maybe I'm just jealous. You guys are all (gasp)
Hero Members. Perhaps you'll get OBEs one day. If Kylie M.
is worth one, why not?
MAX

Offline Eke

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Re: Oh Mercy
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2010, 05:32:56 AM »
I sent a load of those PSB tracks to someone who missed them the other day (for nowt mind) and I did feel a wee bit guilty in doing so. I got over it though.

I have no idea what point I'm trying to make, either here or further up the page a bit. There's a lot of stuff out there on the internet and I find it troubling to make my mind up as to what's fair and what isn't. Don't feel that I'm arguing with you Max. I tend to just dump this stuff because I think they're things that are worth discussing. Whether anyone wants to take me up on my nonsense is up to them.

Offline son of albert

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Re: Oh Mercy
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2010, 06:53:36 PM »
Eke - I suspect it is a matter of degrees and perspective. A principled view would be that the artist owns the art and should be paid for it. But:

In an era where going concerns charge vast sums for tickets and merchandise, then a litlle leeching of material into the hands of the public is probably ok.

For new artists, they will need a new model - see latest news on bands pitching new records to PR and Ad agencies for example - and may not be expecting much from selling copies of their music, rather in PRS and licensing.

For artists who have material that is of value but is being hoarded until it reaches peak value - LOW say - then I am sure there are opportunities for a row.

Who knows what happens next? But change happens - the move from live music and sheet sales was opposed when recorded music came in remember - and things go in cycles. The bigger issue for me is that music is being separated from its time and place, since everything is available all of the time. It then becomes less rerlevant and more redundant. Particulalry as music, like smell, invokes real memories of feelings from the time associated with the music.

As someone who grew up with physical manifestations of music, I know that this shapes my experiences. It won't be the same in the future. Oh well.
It's an idea some day, in my tears, my dreams...

Offline Max Dembo

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Re: Oh Mercy
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2010, 08:59:55 PM »
Yes, things are never going to be the same and I've no idea
where things are headed except that a lot of bands are going
to make the lion's share of what they make playing live rather than from selling discs.
Still it's more substantial as a topic for conversation than most
of the shit which passes for intercourse on web sites of this ilk.
I think the P.S.B would be happy for you to share such things
as long as one doesn't insist on lining their own pockets en route.
My favourite song is Being Boring, especially the lines:
    I never dreamed that I would get to be,
    The person that I always meant to be
    But I thought, in spite of dreams
    You'd be sitting somewhere here with me.

Sorry if that's not word perfect but the pain & loss that their era of gay men must have endured is terribly moving.
Max